Each @ symbol below represents an actual real human child. You can count them if you like, but it will take you a while. There's 20,000 of them. Scroll through them very slowly, trying to picture a particular child in your mind for each symbol. If you look at each child in the face for only one second, this will take you over 5 hours. Try it for a line or two:
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Each @ symbol above represents a child, based on conservative estimates, that will die from starvation TODAY. Let that sink in for a moment.
No loving, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent creator would EVER create a world where innocent children would suffer and die in such a way. Blame it on man’s sin if this helps with your cognitive dissonance, but remember that your God knew that this exact situation would exist today before he ever breathed the universe into existence.
It makes no sense.
Also, it is safe to assume that a large portion of these dying children were being held by a loving parent pleading with God to please, please save their child.
To think that your God would personally answer your relatively pitiful prayers while He ignores the prayers of thousands of dying children is, to me, the absolute height of arrogance.
Wednesday, March 07, 2012
Monday, September 12, 2011
Intercessory Prayer – The Big Texas Test
Even as a Christian I never believed in intercessory prayer, primarily for ethical reasons. There have been numerous studies regarding the effect of prayer, and none of them, to my knowledge, have shown that prayer does anything other than perhaps make the person stating the prayer feel better. The largest of these official studies, back in 2006, involved about 1800 cardiac bypass surgery patients and showed that prayer provided no benefit to their recovery. Christian responses were the typical examples of cognitive dissonance, such as “God's way of working with people is a mystery and that technology really can't determine the effects of prayer.”
Rick Perry, our beloved governor of the great state of Texas, however, initiated perhaps the largest and most comprehensive real-life-not-a-scientific-test of intercessory prayer ever conducted, involving literally millions of people.
Rick Perry, our beloved governor of the great state of Texas, however, initiated perhaps the largest and most comprehensive real-life-not-a-scientific-test of intercessory prayer ever conducted, involving literally millions of people.
Here’s the facts:
1. Way back in spring it was apparent that Texas was experiencing a major drought. 3 months of little or no rain with high temperatures and winds were fueling wildfires over nearly a million acres. Hundreds of homes had burned, livestock was suffering, and several deaths were attributed. Rick Perry decided that us mere mortals needed help from his god and declared:
"WHEREAS, throughout our history, both as a state and as individuals, Texans have been strengthened, assured and lifted up through prayer; it seems right and fitting that the people of Texas should join together in prayer to humbly seek an end to this devastating drought and these dangerous wildfires;
NOW, THEREFORE, I, RICK PERRY, Governor of Texas, under the authority vested in me by the Cons...titution and Statutes of the State of Texas, do hereby proclaim the three-day period from Friday, April 22, 2011, to Sunday, April 24, 2011, as Days of Prayer for Rain in the State of Texas. I urge Texans of all faiths and traditions to offer prayers on those days for the healing of our land, the rebuilding of our communities and the restoration of our normal way of life."
2. The population of Texas is over 25 million.
3. Texas has one of the highest percentage of people calling themselves Christian in the nation, with over 50% of the population associated with some form of Christianity. The largest group, at least in 2000, where the Evangelical Protestants at just over 24% of the population. I think it’s safe to assume that they believe in the power of prayer.
4. Sticking with the Evangelicals, 24% of 25 million means over 6 million Texans were likely taking Rick’s advice and praying to God for rain. Imagine, if you will, the Christian families, circled around their dinner tables with the father, as proper head of the household, leading his flock in prayer, “Dear God, please, for the sake of your children suffering through the loss of their homes, of their livelihood, and of their loved ones, bring rain to this great state to ease their pain. In Jesus’ name, amen.”
5. The drought map shown here is the level of the drought back in April, when Perry issued his proclamation and for the end of August, the latest data I could find. The drought has got significantly worse.
6. Over 1500 homes have been burnt to the ground in the latest wave of wildfires. 17 people are unaccounted for, 4 confirmed dead. Agricultural loses are well into the billions.
Either God ignored those prayers or no one is listening. No other reasonable conclusion can possibly be made.
1. Way back in spring it was apparent that Texas was experiencing a major drought. 3 months of little or no rain with high temperatures and winds were fueling wildfires over nearly a million acres. Hundreds of homes had burned, livestock was suffering, and several deaths were attributed. Rick Perry decided that us mere mortals needed help from his god and declared:
"WHEREAS, throughout our history, both as a state and as individuals, Texans have been strengthened, assured and lifted up through prayer; it seems right and fitting that the people of Texas should join together in prayer to humbly seek an end to this devastating drought and these dangerous wildfires;
NOW, THEREFORE, I, RICK PERRY, Governor of Texas, under the authority vested in me by the Cons...titution and Statutes of the State of Texas, do hereby proclaim the three-day period from Friday, April 22, 2011, to Sunday, April 24, 2011, as Days of Prayer for Rain in the State of Texas. I urge Texans of all faiths and traditions to offer prayers on those days for the healing of our land, the rebuilding of our communities and the restoration of our normal way of life."
2. The population of Texas is over 25 million.
3. Texas has one of the highest percentage of people calling themselves Christian in the nation, with over 50% of the population associated with some form of Christianity. The largest group, at least in 2000, where the Evangelical Protestants at just over 24% of the population. I think it’s safe to assume that they believe in the power of prayer.
4. Sticking with the Evangelicals, 24% of 25 million means over 6 million Texans were likely taking Rick’s advice and praying to God for rain. Imagine, if you will, the Christian families, circled around their dinner tables with the father, as proper head of the household, leading his flock in prayer, “Dear God, please, for the sake of your children suffering through the loss of their homes, of their livelihood, and of their loved ones, bring rain to this great state to ease their pain. In Jesus’ name, amen.”
5. The drought map shown here is the level of the drought back in April, when Perry issued his proclamation and for the end of August, the latest data I could find. The drought has got significantly worse.
6. Over 1500 homes have been burnt to the ground in the latest wave of wildfires. 17 people are unaccounted for, 4 confirmed dead. Agricultural loses are well into the billions.
Either God ignored those prayers or no one is listening. No other reasonable conclusion can possibly be made.
Wednesday, May 26, 2010
Jerky from Heaven
A hearty medium heat peppered jerky developed from years of experimentation. Best I ever ate at a fraction of retail!
Marinade:
- Marinade overnight (or a few hours in a Foodsaver vacuum canister).
- Place strips on dehydrator* racks and sprinkle generously with coarse ground pepper.
- Jerky is done when all softness is gone.
*The Snackmaster Dehydrator (I got mine at walmart.com) is fantastic. It takes about 3 hours per batch. I double the recipe and run 2 batches.
Enjoy!
- 2 lbs London Broil, fat trimmed off
Marinade:
- ½ cup soy sauce
- ½ cup Worcester sauce
- ½ cup Teriyaki sauce
- 2 teaspoons onion powder
- 2 teaspoons garlic powder
- 2 teaspoons Liquid Smoke
- 1 teaspoon ground cayenne (double for Jerky from Hell)
- 1 teaspoon fine ground pepper
- Marinade overnight (or a few hours in a Foodsaver vacuum canister).
- Place strips on dehydrator* racks and sprinkle generously with coarse ground pepper.
- Jerky is done when all softness is gone.
*The Snackmaster Dehydrator (I got mine at walmart.com) is fantastic. It takes about 3 hours per batch. I double the recipe and run 2 batches.
Enjoy!
Embrace Christianity Now!
Posted over on Ray Comfort's blog May 21, 2010:
Hey people! Give up that confusing and silly science mumbo jumbo and embrace Christianity now!
As a Christian, here's what you will get:
You can worship a God that snuffs out the lives of innocent babies! It's okay though, because they all got a one-way ticket to Heaven! Glory!
(1 Kings 14:1-17, 2 Samuel 12:14-18 )(Exodus 12:29-30)
You can worship a God that wagers with Satan, killing a man's entire family to test his faith! If you are really lucky, it could happen to you and just like Job, God will give you new kids even better looking than before! Imagine your pride in owning the most beautiful daughters in the entire city!
(Job 1:18-19)
You can worship a god that commanded Moses' army to slaughter an entire people, but to keep the virgins for themselves! Hubba hubba!
(Numbers 31:1-35)
You can worship a God that commanded a father to murder his own child! Try it out on your own child and see if that pesky angel shows up to spoil your fun! Darn it!
(Genesis 22:1-24)
You can worship a "perfect creator" whose first creation was so imperfect that he drowned nearly every one, including innocent animals! He could have snapped his holy fingers and made them instantly disappear, but hey, what's the Godly fun in that? Drowning entails glorious suffering!
(Genesis 7:23)
You can worship a God that allows human suffering and starvation on a massive scale, yet will answer your insignificant personal prayers! Imagine how special you will feel when God comes to your aid on the very same day He allows 20,000 children to die from starvation!
Just like Ray, you can accuse non-believers of hating life, loving sin, and destined for hell, and not feel self-righteous, judgmental, or arrogant at all! You will speak with God's authority!But wait, there's more!
Best of all, there's a lifetime warranty! When your miserable experience on earth comes to an end, you will be dancing in Heaven with your pal Jesus (and all those babies!) knowing that the majority of God's own creation, including your friends and family, are being tortured in Hell for eternity... just as they deserved! Paaaartay!
Non-Christians, God could have you hit by a truck tomorrow! Don't waste another minute and sign up today!
Hey people! Give up that confusing and silly science mumbo jumbo and embrace Christianity now!
As a Christian, here's what you will get:
You can worship a God that snuffs out the lives of innocent babies! It's okay though, because they all got a one-way ticket to Heaven! Glory!
(1 Kings 14:1-17, 2 Samuel 12:14-18 )(Exodus 12:29-30)
You can worship a God that wagers with Satan, killing a man's entire family to test his faith! If you are really lucky, it could happen to you and just like Job, God will give you new kids even better looking than before! Imagine your pride in owning the most beautiful daughters in the entire city!
(Job 1:18-19)
You can worship a god that commanded Moses' army to slaughter an entire people, but to keep the virgins for themselves! Hubba hubba!
(Numbers 31:1-35)
You can worship a God that commanded a father to murder his own child! Try it out on your own child and see if that pesky angel shows up to spoil your fun! Darn it!
(Genesis 22:1-24)
You can worship a "perfect creator" whose first creation was so imperfect that he drowned nearly every one, including innocent animals! He could have snapped his holy fingers and made them instantly disappear, but hey, what's the Godly fun in that? Drowning entails glorious suffering!
(Genesis 7:23)
You can worship a God that allows human suffering and starvation on a massive scale, yet will answer your insignificant personal prayers! Imagine how special you will feel when God comes to your aid on the very same day He allows 20,000 children to die from starvation!
Just like Ray, you can accuse non-believers of hating life, loving sin, and destined for hell, and not feel self-righteous, judgmental, or arrogant at all! You will speak with God's authority!But wait, there's more!
Best of all, there's a lifetime warranty! When your miserable experience on earth comes to an end, you will be dancing in Heaven with your pal Jesus (and all those babies!) knowing that the majority of God's own creation, including your friends and family, are being tortured in Hell for eternity... just as they deserved! Paaaartay!
Non-Christians, God could have you hit by a truck tomorrow! Don't waste another minute and sign up today!
Friday, December 11, 2009
A Spiritual Journey - Part One
In my previous post I had a really good discussion with Anette Acker, a Christian blogger that responded to my challenge. During the course of our conversation said asked me an excellent question: "If you're on a spiritual journey, why not ask God to lead you to his truth and see where that takes you? As you said, there can only be one truth, and any deity worth his salt should care about you finding it, right?"
Absolutely!
Enthused about Anette's question, I composed a fairly lengthy response and posted it. Or so I thought. It disappeared into cyberspace. Within my response I described what have been my most spiritual experiences, including asking God the precise question stated above by Anette, and what I felt God's response was. Perhaps losing my post was a good thing, as I had used some real names, including those of my daughters. So, I decided I would make it the subject of this, my next topic, and rewrite my response to Anette in a more generic manner.
Since my daughters are included here, let me give you a little background. I have identical twin daughters from my first marriage, 17 years old, that are the absolute joy of my life. I'll call them Sharon and Susan (as a tribute to the identical twins in the movie "A Parent Trap" from 1961 and what we considered naming them).
Early in the pregnancy, Sharon was diagnosed with "velamentous cord insertion" which means her umbilical cord did not enter directly into the placenta. Instead, it attached to the walls of the amniotic sack and then veins traveled along the amniotic membrane until they reached the placenta. The symptoms of VCI vary widely, but in Sharon's case she simply received less of a blood supply that Susan. Because the veins are not protected and can be compressed by the stresses of birth, VCI babies are almost always delivered by caesarian section. Their mother went into labor at only 28 weeks, but this was brought under control by drugs for a month or so and they were born "only" 7 weeks early. Sharon was 16 inches long and weighed 3.5 pounds, 2 inches shorter than Susan at 18 inches long and weighing 5 pounds even. Both had typical symptoms of being born prematurely, such as apnea, but were sent home after only a month stay in the hospital. Except for Sharon being diagnosed with coarctation of the aorta a couple years ago (corrected by stent surgery) both are vibrant and healthy.
Because Sharon suffered somewhat while in the womb, her neonatologist told us that she would have a stronger personality, and that has proven to be true. Sharon is a very complex individual, has very strong opinions, and does not put up with any crap. She is intolerant sometimes, especially when it comes to ethical matters and she is perhaps the most honest person I have ever known. Susan, on the other hand is sweet, eager to please, and being 3 inches taller and stunningly beautiful, has more friends, including 4 boyfriends so far to Sharon's none. Yet I worry more about Susan, as she may lack the fortitude that Sharon has to stay out of trouble.
I recall strongly an event shortly after they were born when I was holding Sharon and we stared at each other, right in the eyes. Babies have not yet learned that it is impolite to stare, so it can be fun to see how long they will lock your gaze. In this case after a minute or so of staring I had this sudden and overwhelming feeling I was staring directly into the eyes of God. It was a spiritual experience unlike anything I have had before or since. I love them both equally and more than I ever thought I could love anyone, but I have this unique soft spot in my heart for Sharon that puts a lump in my throat and makes my heart well up with a combination of love, joy, sadness, pride, and awe when I even think about her, as I am experiencing now as I write this. To this day I cannot look her in the eyes for more than a second or two without these spiritual feelings returning.
Perhaps, unaware to me at the time, this was the beginning of my spiritual journey away from Christianity.
- To be continued -
Absolutely!
Enthused about Anette's question, I composed a fairly lengthy response and posted it. Or so I thought. It disappeared into cyberspace. Within my response I described what have been my most spiritual experiences, including asking God the precise question stated above by Anette, and what I felt God's response was. Perhaps losing my post was a good thing, as I had used some real names, including those of my daughters. So, I decided I would make it the subject of this, my next topic, and rewrite my response to Anette in a more generic manner.
Since my daughters are included here, let me give you a little background. I have identical twin daughters from my first marriage, 17 years old, that are the absolute joy of my life. I'll call them Sharon and Susan (as a tribute to the identical twins in the movie "A Parent Trap" from 1961 and what we considered naming them).
Early in the pregnancy, Sharon was diagnosed with "velamentous cord insertion" which means her umbilical cord did not enter directly into the placenta. Instead, it attached to the walls of the amniotic sack and then veins traveled along the amniotic membrane until they reached the placenta. The symptoms of VCI vary widely, but in Sharon's case she simply received less of a blood supply that Susan. Because the veins are not protected and can be compressed by the stresses of birth, VCI babies are almost always delivered by caesarian section. Their mother went into labor at only 28 weeks, but this was brought under control by drugs for a month or so and they were born "only" 7 weeks early. Sharon was 16 inches long and weighed 3.5 pounds, 2 inches shorter than Susan at 18 inches long and weighing 5 pounds even. Both had typical symptoms of being born prematurely, such as apnea, but were sent home after only a month stay in the hospital. Except for Sharon being diagnosed with coarctation of the aorta a couple years ago (corrected by stent surgery) both are vibrant and healthy.
Because Sharon suffered somewhat while in the womb, her neonatologist told us that she would have a stronger personality, and that has proven to be true. Sharon is a very complex individual, has very strong opinions, and does not put up with any crap. She is intolerant sometimes, especially when it comes to ethical matters and she is perhaps the most honest person I have ever known. Susan, on the other hand is sweet, eager to please, and being 3 inches taller and stunningly beautiful, has more friends, including 4 boyfriends so far to Sharon's none. Yet I worry more about Susan, as she may lack the fortitude that Sharon has to stay out of trouble.
I recall strongly an event shortly after they were born when I was holding Sharon and we stared at each other, right in the eyes. Babies have not yet learned that it is impolite to stare, so it can be fun to see how long they will lock your gaze. In this case after a minute or so of staring I had this sudden and overwhelming feeling I was staring directly into the eyes of God. It was a spiritual experience unlike anything I have had before or since. I love them both equally and more than I ever thought I could love anyone, but I have this unique soft spot in my heart for Sharon that puts a lump in my throat and makes my heart well up with a combination of love, joy, sadness, pride, and awe when I even think about her, as I am experiencing now as I write this. To this day I cannot look her in the eyes for more than a second or two without these spiritual feelings returning.
Perhaps, unaware to me at the time, this was the beginning of my spiritual journey away from Christianity.
- To be continued -
Thursday, October 29, 2009
Yet Another Question For Christians
In the Bible, 2 Samuel Chapter 11 and 12, there is the story about David that I talked about it a few posts back. What follows is a "Yes" or "No" question I submitted to Ray Comfort's blog on several occasions. To date, not a single Christian has answered it with a "Yes" or "No":
For a quick review, I’ll paraphrase, but I am being careful to give an accurate description:
God loves David, but David does something that is bad in God’s eyes. He has an affair with Bathsheba, has Bathsheba’s husband killed in battle, and David and Bathsheba have an illegitimate baby son. God is displeased about this and makes the baby sick to punish David for what David has done. David pleads with God to save his baby, but after a week God allows the Baby to die.
Now, suppose just theoretically that you are a perfect, loving, omniscient, and omnipotent God and nothing exists at all except for You. You are starting from scratch and can do anything at all. You know, of course, exactly how everything will turn out to the finest detail before you even commit to creating anything because you are omniscient.
Okay, here’s the question: Would You create a world where someday You would make your beloved David’s baby son sick, let it suffer for a week, then let it die?
YES or NO?
For a quick review, I’ll paraphrase, but I am being careful to give an accurate description:
God loves David, but David does something that is bad in God’s eyes. He has an affair with Bathsheba, has Bathsheba’s husband killed in battle, and David and Bathsheba have an illegitimate baby son. God is displeased about this and makes the baby sick to punish David for what David has done. David pleads with God to save his baby, but after a week God allows the Baby to die.
Now, suppose just theoretically that you are a perfect, loving, omniscient, and omnipotent God and nothing exists at all except for You. You are starting from scratch and can do anything at all. You know, of course, exactly how everything will turn out to the finest detail before you even commit to creating anything because you are omniscient.
Okay, here’s the question: Would You create a world where someday You would make your beloved David’s baby son sick, let it suffer for a week, then let it die?
YES or NO?
Monday, July 20, 2009
God is Guilty of Murder, Simplified
According to Christianity, God is omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly loving. Based on the Bible, the following has occurred:
1. Nothing existed (well, except God of course)
2. God created everything, including us.
3. A bunch of stuff happens.
4. God kills King David’s baby boy to punish David (see 2 Samuel chapter 11-13). By the way, dozens of stories of God killing babies could be used here. This is merely my favorite.
I submit that it makes no difference whatsoever what happened during Step 3. If a perfect creator creates the universe out of nothing, the creator is directly responsible for whatever happens, and God is a murderer, plain and simple.
It’s so simple, yet Christians will dance, twist, distort, and redefine the English language to handle this obvious truth. They are brainwashed, plain and simple.
Here’s some analogies to help you:
1. A computer programmer creates and distributes a computer virus that under certain totally random conditions will decide to trash the host PC's hard drive. Who is responsible for this destruction? A Christian’s answer: The virus. My answer: The programmer!
2. A Pit Bull owner lets his dog run loose at a local park and “Killer” mauls a baby. Who is at fault? A Christian’s answer: The Pit Bull. My answer: The dog owner!
3. A father tells Tommy, his 4 year old son, to not eat the cookies that are placed on the table while he runs to the store. The father explains to Tommy that if he does, his hand will be chopped off. While at the store, Tommy’s mother tells Tommy it’s okay to have a cookie, which Tommy does. The father comes home, asks Tommy what happened to the cookies, and Tommy tells his dad that he ate them, as Mom said it was okay. The father holds his son’s arm to the table, raises a knife, and chops off his sons hand as he yells at his son “It was your choice!” Who is at fault? A Christians answer: Tommy. My answer: The father.
What would your answer be?
1. Nothing existed (well, except God of course)
2. God created everything, including us.
3. A bunch of stuff happens.
4. God kills King David’s baby boy to punish David (see 2 Samuel chapter 11-13). By the way, dozens of stories of God killing babies could be used here. This is merely my favorite.
I submit that it makes no difference whatsoever what happened during Step 3. If a perfect creator creates the universe out of nothing, the creator is directly responsible for whatever happens, and God is a murderer, plain and simple.
It’s so simple, yet Christians will dance, twist, distort, and redefine the English language to handle this obvious truth. They are brainwashed, plain and simple.
Here’s some analogies to help you:
1. A computer programmer creates and distributes a computer virus that under certain totally random conditions will decide to trash the host PC's hard drive. Who is responsible for this destruction? A Christian’s answer: The virus. My answer: The programmer!
2. A Pit Bull owner lets his dog run loose at a local park and “Killer” mauls a baby. Who is at fault? A Christian’s answer: The Pit Bull. My answer: The dog owner!
3. A father tells Tommy, his 4 year old son, to not eat the cookies that are placed on the table while he runs to the store. The father explains to Tommy that if he does, his hand will be chopped off. While at the store, Tommy’s mother tells Tommy it’s okay to have a cookie, which Tommy does. The father comes home, asks Tommy what happened to the cookies, and Tommy tells his dad that he ate them, as Mom said it was okay. The father holds his son’s arm to the table, raises a knife, and chops off his sons hand as he yells at his son “It was your choice!” Who is at fault? A Christians answer: Tommy. My answer: The father.
What would your answer be?
Monday, July 13, 2009
Ray Comfort
I have for a while now been participating a little bit on evangelist Ray Comfort’s “Atheist Central” blog (click on his name above to go there). Ray is an ultra-conservative evangelist, noted for his association with Kirk Cameron, fear-based street evangelism, and his infamous video about bananas being the “atheists worst nightmare”. Ray makes a daily post, usually about evolution or the origin of life, and then allows anyone to post comments. Ray will rarely respond to comments, rather he will let the commenters duke it out amongst themselves. Ray makes it clear that comments become material for his books, and he has published many. There are some real whackjobs on his blog, but generally the “conversations” are quite civil and interesting, at least for a while The site has this policy about responses:
1. Any comments we deem abusive or outside the boundaries of Christian civility will not be published.
2. Any comments that don't properly, and respectfully, capitalize the name "Jesus" and/or "God," or use these in a blasphemous manner, will not be published.
3. Any comments that include website links will not be published.
I post under the name “Dave B” (which contains a link to here), but all of a sudden, none of my responses have been published. Here is my last comment to be ignored. I plan on retrying, perhaps tweaking it, until it gets posted in some form.
--------------------
Ray, I have completely changed my mind about you. My first exposure to you was the infamous banana video, then I watched a recorded debate with you and Kirk against some atheists that I didn’t recognize at the time. My opinion of the outcome is not surprising given that I am an ex-Christian. I thought you lost. But I was impressed with your composure and conviction and felt your opponents were pretty arrogant. When I first came to your blog here I was even more impressed. I was thinking, “Wow, here’s an evangelical Christian that invites atheists to come and debate. That’s pretty cool.” The fact that you allowed anything, within very reasonable constraints, to be posted by anyone was great.
I’m not one for written debate as I always have trouble expressing what I am trying to convey, but I participated here anyway and it was fun. I was so impressed with some of the explanations that some very knowledgeable participants were taking a lot of time to prepare and post. Steven J, in particular, presents his arguments calmly, logically, and convincingly.
You’d ask some ignorant question to the effect “How stupid is it that atheists believe that everything came from nothing?” Then a furry of activity would ensue where it was explained in painstaking detail that atheists don’t actually believe that. I thought, “Well, that ought to teach him”. Then you’d ask something else like “How could both sexes evolve side by side?”, then a furry of activity would ensue where it was explained in painstaking detail exactly how that could have happened. I thought again, “Well, that ought to teach him”.
After a short while, though, things started to get repetitive. A few weeks later you would do it all over again, asking the same questions exactly as if you had never read any of the responses. At one point in fact, after being away for a little while I came back to your site and literally thought my browser cache was showing me old material.
I did some research and found other folks on other sites that had been here to Atheist Central and had given up. They explained The Ray Formula. Get the unwary atheists so worked up and frustrated that they would over-react and say something personal, aggressive, or emotional. Then you’d grab hold of those comments and use them in your books and other material as a shining example of how “unreasonable” atheists are. Then repeat the process again and again and again…
I believe that evangelists fall into two camps. First camp are those that are sincere and really think it is their mission in life to save souls from Hell. The other camp is nothing but a big money generating scam, a big act to line pockets with cash from the ignorant, people like Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, and Ted Haggard.
After witnessing the blatant deception, quote-mining, side-stepping, and ignoring of every single valid counterpoint that Steven J and others make, especially this absurd refusal to even give your opinion about the age of the earth, I am convinced you are living a lie.
I am but a mere engineer, making a good living, but I will never achieve the income levels or notoriety that you have achieved. But at what price Ray? Every person in my life that knows me personally respects me for who I am. You, on the other hand, are not only the laughing stock of your opponents, but are becoming the laughing stock of the mainstream Christian community as well.
1. Any comments we deem abusive or outside the boundaries of Christian civility will not be published.
2. Any comments that don't properly, and respectfully, capitalize the name "Jesus" and/or "God," or use these in a blasphemous manner, will not be published.
3. Any comments that include website links will not be published.
I post under the name “Dave B” (which contains a link to here), but all of a sudden, none of my responses have been published. Here is my last comment to be ignored. I plan on retrying, perhaps tweaking it, until it gets posted in some form.
--------------------
Ray, I have completely changed my mind about you. My first exposure to you was the infamous banana video, then I watched a recorded debate with you and Kirk against some atheists that I didn’t recognize at the time. My opinion of the outcome is not surprising given that I am an ex-Christian. I thought you lost. But I was impressed with your composure and conviction and felt your opponents were pretty arrogant. When I first came to your blog here I was even more impressed. I was thinking, “Wow, here’s an evangelical Christian that invites atheists to come and debate. That’s pretty cool.” The fact that you allowed anything, within very reasonable constraints, to be posted by anyone was great.
I’m not one for written debate as I always have trouble expressing what I am trying to convey, but I participated here anyway and it was fun. I was so impressed with some of the explanations that some very knowledgeable participants were taking a lot of time to prepare and post. Steven J, in particular, presents his arguments calmly, logically, and convincingly.
You’d ask some ignorant question to the effect “How stupid is it that atheists believe that everything came from nothing?” Then a furry of activity would ensue where it was explained in painstaking detail that atheists don’t actually believe that. I thought, “Well, that ought to teach him”. Then you’d ask something else like “How could both sexes evolve side by side?”, then a furry of activity would ensue where it was explained in painstaking detail exactly how that could have happened. I thought again, “Well, that ought to teach him”.
After a short while, though, things started to get repetitive. A few weeks later you would do it all over again, asking the same questions exactly as if you had never read any of the responses. At one point in fact, after being away for a little while I came back to your site and literally thought my browser cache was showing me old material.
I did some research and found other folks on other sites that had been here to Atheist Central and had given up. They explained The Ray Formula. Get the unwary atheists so worked up and frustrated that they would over-react and say something personal, aggressive, or emotional. Then you’d grab hold of those comments and use them in your books and other material as a shining example of how “unreasonable” atheists are. Then repeat the process again and again and again…
I believe that evangelists fall into two camps. First camp are those that are sincere and really think it is their mission in life to save souls from Hell. The other camp is nothing but a big money generating scam, a big act to line pockets with cash from the ignorant, people like Benny Hinn, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, and Ted Haggard.
After witnessing the blatant deception, quote-mining, side-stepping, and ignoring of every single valid counterpoint that Steven J and others make, especially this absurd refusal to even give your opinion about the age of the earth, I am convinced you are living a lie.
I am but a mere engineer, making a good living, but I will never achieve the income levels or notoriety that you have achieved. But at what price Ray? Every person in my life that knows me personally respects me for who I am. You, on the other hand, are not only the laughing stock of your opponents, but are becoming the laughing stock of the mainstream Christian community as well.
Tuesday, March 03, 2009
The God Gene?
I have been reconsidering something I have been telling people for a few years now. I have stated before that I used to be a Christian. That somewhere around the age of 47 I had a series of life-events that allowed me to reassess my beliefs. I am coming to terms with perhaps the truth that I was never a Christian to begin with. Rather I was a “Christian of Convenience” that merely went through the motions because it was the path of least resistance.
I am saying this because I am coming more and more convinced that there is a “god gene”, a genetic characteristic that allows, no forces, an individual to believe in a higher power. I simply don’t have it.
This concept makes more sense to me all of the time. Look at people like Banana Man Ray Comfort. He just won’t let go, no matter how silly his arguments are or how convincing the arguments against his positions are. He just glazes over and continues his mission.
I think if it is proven to be true, this “god gene” concept may go a long way towards religious peace and more tolerance of people like Ray Comfort. I will try to explain.
The more I have gotten into the ex-Christian thing, the more convinced I am of the absolute truth that there is no need for a biblical god to exist and there is absolutely no proof that he does. In fact, the Christian concept has become absurd to me, making no sense at all in a scientific, spiritual, ethical, or moral sense. But people I love all around me would literally die for it. Why is that? They aren’t stupid. They aren’t insane. What is going on?
The best analogy I can think of is homosexuality, It has been determined that this is also part of our genetic code. I have never tried to convince a homosexual that my role as a heterosexual is “better” or “makes more sense” than theirs, but I suspect if I did I’d have about as much chance of converting them to “go straight” as I would converting a Christian to an ex-Christian. It would be impossible to convert them, as their beliefs are the only one that makes sense to them.
I believe that “belief” is not a choice. I didn’t “choose” to be an ex-Christian, it just happened after I took a good look at it. I soaked up the evidence and my beliefs are what they are. I could never just choose to be a Christian. It would be fake. Just as it was my fist 47 years. But the fakeness was no big deal, in fact it helped me to get along with my social peers.
So, if this god gene thing is true, wouldn’t we ex-Christians be more tolerant of Christians knowing that they are not that way by choice? Sure, the fake ones like me could be convinced, but the ones that have gone through a religious upheaval and still emerged a Christian have no choice. No amount of convincing, whether it be logic, science, morals, whatever, would convince them otherwise because it is genetically impossible.
Or am I being too simplistic? I mean, it’s not a “Christian gene”, it’s a “god gene”. There are many alternatives to Christianity that still believe in a higher power. Could someone that possesses this gene be talked into any type of god-based religion? Thoughts?
I am saying this because I am coming more and more convinced that there is a “god gene”, a genetic characteristic that allows, no forces, an individual to believe in a higher power. I simply don’t have it.
This concept makes more sense to me all of the time. Look at people like Banana Man Ray Comfort. He just won’t let go, no matter how silly his arguments are or how convincing the arguments against his positions are. He just glazes over and continues his mission.
I think if it is proven to be true, this “god gene” concept may go a long way towards religious peace and more tolerance of people like Ray Comfort. I will try to explain.
The more I have gotten into the ex-Christian thing, the more convinced I am of the absolute truth that there is no need for a biblical god to exist and there is absolutely no proof that he does. In fact, the Christian concept has become absurd to me, making no sense at all in a scientific, spiritual, ethical, or moral sense. But people I love all around me would literally die for it. Why is that? They aren’t stupid. They aren’t insane. What is going on?
The best analogy I can think of is homosexuality, It has been determined that this is also part of our genetic code. I have never tried to convince a homosexual that my role as a heterosexual is “better” or “makes more sense” than theirs, but I suspect if I did I’d have about as much chance of converting them to “go straight” as I would converting a Christian to an ex-Christian. It would be impossible to convert them, as their beliefs are the only one that makes sense to them.
I believe that “belief” is not a choice. I didn’t “choose” to be an ex-Christian, it just happened after I took a good look at it. I soaked up the evidence and my beliefs are what they are. I could never just choose to be a Christian. It would be fake. Just as it was my fist 47 years. But the fakeness was no big deal, in fact it helped me to get along with my social peers.
So, if this god gene thing is true, wouldn’t we ex-Christians be more tolerant of Christians knowing that they are not that way by choice? Sure, the fake ones like me could be convinced, but the ones that have gone through a religious upheaval and still emerged a Christian have no choice. No amount of convincing, whether it be logic, science, morals, whatever, would convince them otherwise because it is genetically impossible.
Or am I being too simplistic? I mean, it’s not a “Christian gene”, it’s a “god gene”. There are many alternatives to Christianity that still believe in a higher power. Could someone that possesses this gene be talked into any type of god-based religion? Thoughts?
Tuesday, July 29, 2008
A Rose is a Rose
I think that some of the friction between science and religion comes from the double-speak of religion, where many words are given meanings that are counter to the word’s secular definition. Take the word “truth” for example. The Encarta Dictionary defines “truth” as:
- Something factual - the thing that corresponds to fact or reality.
- True quality - correspondence to fact or reality.
- True statement - a statement that corresponds to fact or reality.
- Obvious fact - something that is so clearly true that it hardly needs to be stated.
Note that any belief derived from faith alone cannot be considered a truth, yet the word is used constantly by the religulous . Every major religion, and every one of the thousands of sects within, claim that they are the only “truth”. I would be willing to wager, for example, that nearly every major radio market has a religious radio station called “The Truth”. Most of these stations are about as far to the left as possible. Pastor Chuck Smith on “Pastor’s Perspective” the other day was discussing how man and dinosaurs coexisted. I’m not sure whether belief in that “truth” is funny or sad.
Let’s take one more word. The Encarta Dictionary defines “religion” as:
- Belief and worship - people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life.
- System - an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine.
- Personal beliefs or values - a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by.
- Obsession - an object, practice, cause, or activity that somebody is completely devoted to or obsessed by.
Many times I have heard Christians attempt to completely sidestep anti-religious arguments with the classic “But Christianity is not a religion. It's a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” Yes, Virginia, it is a religion. You can’t change the definition of something simply by calling it something else. A rose is a rose and all. Suppose you accuse someone with a drinking problem of being an alcoholic and they say, “I’m not an alcoholic, I have a personal relationship with Jim Beam.”
Thursday, July 03, 2008
God the Baby Killer
Thanks to Steve Wells’ “Dwindling in Unbelief” blog, I now have a new favorite Bible story, replacing my former favorite, 2:Kings 2:23. If you recall, the story in 2 Kings was about God sending bears to maul to pieces 42 children for making fun of Elisha’s bald head. This is one of the stories that started my de-conversion from Christianity. There’s a good debate about it on Steve’s blog in which I participate here: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/10/go-up-thou-bald-head.html
I was named David by my parents after the Biblical David, so I am interested in stories about him. This particular story is told in 2 Samuel chapter 12, which I will paraphrase as follows: In the preceding chapter, David sees Bathsheba taking a bath and wants her so badly that he arranges messengers to kidnap her, commit adultery with David, then sent home. She gets pregnant, of course. Upon hearing about it, David arranges to have her husband killed by sending him to the front of whatever battle was going on at the time. Bathsheba mourns the loss of her husband, then becomes David’s wife and bears his son.
God is so angered by David’s deeds that he makes his infant son ill. David fasts and pleads with God to save his son to no avail. The baby suffers in sickness for an entire week, then dies.
There are many bizarre immoral twists in this story, but they would all detract from this main message: The biblical god murdered an innocent child to punish someone else.
Unless you are a brainwashed Christian, there is no way to twist this story around in your brain to make it anything other than what it is. The biblical god is an evil immoral murderer.
PS Lest you take this story out of context, go read this story in its entirety, if you can stomach it. There’s so much more to absorb than simple baby killing. There’s voyeurism, adultery, outdoor rape, polygamy, massacring, incestuous rape, sawing people up, and a jewel encrusted gold crown for Dave that weighs over a hundred pounds!
I was named David by my parents after the Biblical David, so I am interested in stories about him. This particular story is told in 2 Samuel chapter 12, which I will paraphrase as follows: In the preceding chapter, David sees Bathsheba taking a bath and wants her so badly that he arranges messengers to kidnap her, commit adultery with David, then sent home. She gets pregnant, of course. Upon hearing about it, David arranges to have her husband killed by sending him to the front of whatever battle was going on at the time. Bathsheba mourns the loss of her husband, then becomes David’s wife and bears his son.
God is so angered by David’s deeds that he makes his infant son ill. David fasts and pleads with God to save his son to no avail. The baby suffers in sickness for an entire week, then dies.
There are many bizarre immoral twists in this story, but they would all detract from this main message: The biblical god murdered an innocent child to punish someone else.
Unless you are a brainwashed Christian, there is no way to twist this story around in your brain to make it anything other than what it is. The biblical god is an evil immoral murderer.
PS Lest you take this story out of context, go read this story in its entirety, if you can stomach it. There’s so much more to absorb than simple baby killing. There’s voyeurism, adultery, outdoor rape, polygamy, massacring, incestuous rape, sawing people up, and a jewel encrusted gold crown for Dave that weighs over a hundred pounds!
Monday, November 05, 2007
The Prophet, The Children, and The Bears
I often tell folks that when you go to church, you never hear a sermon about the bad stuff in the bible. I was wrong.
Grace Baptist Church in Fremont California took on one of my favorite 'bad' stories in the bible. Not only did Pastor Michael Phillips take on this subject for his congregation, he tailored the subject to be presented directly to the children of his church. The link below provides a very short written version, which is fun, but the real gem is the full length 43 minute recording of his sermon “The Prophet, The Children, and The Bears”. Grab a cup of joe, snuggle up on the couch, gather ‘round the kids, and soak this in:
http://www.gracebaptist.ws/sermons/notes/ChildrensSermons/TheProphet_TheChildren_TheBears.html.
Now, if you are a Christian, I would love to hear your viewpoint of this sermon. Did you enjoy it? Do you think it is appropriate for children of all ages? Do you think it was God inspired? Is this what you are teaching your child?
Since I don't expect any responses to this, I will go ahead and give you my opinion:
This sermon is blatant child abuse. It is a perfect example of everything I detest about conservative christianity.
Grace Baptist Church in Fremont California took on one of my favorite 'bad' stories in the bible. Not only did Pastor Michael Phillips take on this subject for his congregation, he tailored the subject to be presented directly to the children of his church. The link below provides a very short written version, which is fun, but the real gem is the full length 43 minute recording of his sermon “The Prophet, The Children, and The Bears”. Grab a cup of joe, snuggle up on the couch, gather ‘round the kids, and soak this in:
http://www.gracebaptist.ws/sermons/notes/ChildrensSermons/TheProphet_TheChildren_TheBears.html.
Now, if you are a Christian, I would love to hear your viewpoint of this sermon. Did you enjoy it? Do you think it is appropriate for children of all ages? Do you think it was God inspired? Is this what you are teaching your child?
Since I don't expect any responses to this, I will go ahead and give you my opinion:
This sermon is blatant child abuse. It is a perfect example of everything I detest about conservative christianity.
Wednesday, September 13, 2006
God's Body Count
I have been pretty quiet on here lately. One reason is that whenever something comes up that I feel compelled to write about, I usually do a little web surfing to research the subject. Nearly every time I do that I find someone out there expressing a similar opinion far more succinctly and intelligently than I ever could. Not only that, but reading about it and mulling things over usually has a somewhat calming effect on me, so I am able to let it go.
My latest subject, however, I cannot let go, and would be number eleven on my list of why I could never again be a Christian: The biblical god murders an awful lot of his own creation. Just doesn’t make any sense to me. In trying to get a handle on just how many he has murdered, I ran across this blog: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com. It is run by Steve Wells, the editor of one of my favorite sites, http://skepticsannotatedbible.com. One of his running posts right now is precisely this subject. Steve’s running total, constantly being updated with helpful input from concerned readers, is 2,270,365 human souls, including many innocent children. Keep in mind that this does not even count some real biggies (such as the flood) where the bible doesn’t happen to give a body count. It also does not count the billions of people, including myself, that will receive a fate even worse than death, eternal punishment in Hell.
To balance good vs. evil, Steve also counts the deaths credited to Satan. The grand total is 10, the sons and daughters of Job. Personally, I give god credit for them, as they were the result of a friendly wager between Satan and god. A nit for sure, especially since god made it all up to Job by giving him a new set of kids, even better looking than the first set.
In my book then it's:
God:2,270,375
Satan:0
If you are a Christian, I would love to hear how you justify in your mind the worship of such a loving, omnipotent, omniscient, perfect...
murderer.
My latest subject, however, I cannot let go, and would be number eleven on my list of why I could never again be a Christian: The biblical god murders an awful lot of his own creation. Just doesn’t make any sense to me. In trying to get a handle on just how many he has murdered, I ran across this blog: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com. It is run by Steve Wells, the editor of one of my favorite sites, http://skepticsannotatedbible.com. One of his running posts right now is precisely this subject. Steve’s running total, constantly being updated with helpful input from concerned readers, is 2,270,365 human souls, including many innocent children. Keep in mind that this does not even count some real biggies (such as the flood) where the bible doesn’t happen to give a body count. It also does not count the billions of people, including myself, that will receive a fate even worse than death, eternal punishment in Hell.
To balance good vs. evil, Steve also counts the deaths credited to Satan. The grand total is 10, the sons and daughters of Job. Personally, I give god credit for them, as they were the result of a friendly wager between Satan and god. A nit for sure, especially since god made it all up to Job by giving him a new set of kids, even better looking than the first set.
In my book then it's:
God:2,270,375
Satan:0
If you are a Christian, I would love to hear how you justify in your mind the worship of such a loving, omnipotent, omniscient, perfect...
murderer.
Tuesday, June 13, 2006
Thought for the Day
Do you have more than one child? If so, do you have a favorite? Have you chosen one child over the others for special treatment?
Are you thinking, “Of course not, Dave, that is ridiculous. I love every one of my children equally! How could you even suggest such a thing?”?
Every parent loves every child just as much as the others. Differently, yes, but not more or less. I can’t even begin to think of what I would do if I were forced to make a “Sophie’s Choice”. I literally get a lump in my throat to even think about it.
Yet Christians believe that God does have special children. Chosen children. They believe that even though God knows every decision that every child will ever make before He even creates them, this God will judge them at the end of their lives, sending some to live in bliss with his son forever, the rest to suffer for eternity in hell.
Absurd.
Are you thinking, “Of course not, Dave, that is ridiculous. I love every one of my children equally! How could you even suggest such a thing?”?
Every parent loves every child just as much as the others. Differently, yes, but not more or less. I can’t even begin to think of what I would do if I were forced to make a “Sophie’s Choice”. I literally get a lump in my throat to even think about it.
Yet Christians believe that God does have special children. Chosen children. They believe that even though God knows every decision that every child will ever make before He even creates them, this God will judge them at the end of their lives, sending some to live in bliss with his son forever, the rest to suffer for eternity in hell.
Absurd.
Thursday, May 25, 2006
Opus Dei Vinci
Shamelessly lifted from http://www.bettybowers.com:
This man (on the left wearing a fabulous vintage chiffon-lined Dior gold lamé gown over a silk Vera Wang empire waist tulle cocktail dress, accessorized with a 3-foot beaded peaked House of Whoville hat, and the ruby slippers Judy Garland wore in the Wizard of Oz) is worried that The Da Vinci Code might make the Roman Catholic Church look foolish.
Tuesday, April 11, 2006
Tough Week for Christians
Wowee, I go on a cruise for a week, and a few atomic bombs are dropped on Christianity. Coincidence?
First, the largest intercessory prayer study ever conducted, to the tune of 2.4 million dollars, is completed and shows that God’s mind isn’t changed by prayer. What a surprise.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2112892,00.html
Of course, this won’t faze your average Christian fundie. The biblical god’s not about to respond to prayers made during a scientific experiment! Why, that would prove he exists, and then the average person couldn’t make a decision to believe by faith alone. Just think how empty Hell would be. Can’t have that! How can a Christian enjoy Heaven if there aren't billions suffering in Hell at the same time?
Next up, many creationists claim that evolution is disproved because no fossil has been discovered that is a major transition, such as from a sea to a land animal. Evolutionists know that they do exist, and have found many, but that sea-to-land one has been a bit elusive. Not any more:
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/060405_tiktaalikfrm.htm
Of course, the creationist will simply respond that this creature is not transitional, is unique, and where there was once one gap, there is now two! The evolution model from primordial soup to man can’t be true – it is filled with thousands of gaps!
I think it’s ironic that creationsist won’t buy into evolution unless every single fossil is found and photographed such that if they were played one after another in animation, a movie going smoothly from an amoeba to a man would be stepless. Yet they blindly accept Jesus as their savior when not a shred of his physical existence exists. And not a shred of evidence of any paranormal activity whatsoever has ever been proven, let alone intercessory prayer. Ever.
If you are a Christian, whatever you do, do NOT study science. The case for evolution could hardly be any more sound. Unless, of course, you remain totally ignorant about science. Keep your face in that bible and throw science away. Yeah, that’s it.
By the way, just for the record, I have no problem with the concept that God has created us using evolution as a tool.
Third, and finally for now, there’s this:
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/060406_codexfrm.htm
From the site:
“An ancient manuscript dating from the third or fourth century, containing the only known surviving copy of the Gospel of Judas, has been conserved, authenticated and translated after being lost for nearly 1,700 years, scientists say… The document gives an unusual view of the relationship between Jesus and Judas, offering new insights into the disciple who according to the Bible betrayed Jesus. Unlike the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, which portray Judas as a traitor, the document portrays Judas as acting at Jesus’ request when he hands Jesus over to the authorities… Jesus selects Judas from among the other disciples for a special task: “... you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.” Jesus would thus have been asking Judas to help him get rid of his physical flesh, to free the spiritual being within.”
As if the bible isn’t a contradicting mess anyway, now comes this. Maybe Mel Gibson will make a new version of his snuff film where Judas is heralded as a hero.
I can’t wait for my next cruise!
Thursday, March 16, 2006
Thought for the Day
25,000 children will die from starvation today. Why then would God answer YOUR prayers?
Monday, February 27, 2006
Monday, January 16, 2006
Dave's Top Ten List #1: Christianity
The following are my top ten reasons why I will never again call myself a Christian.
They are presented in no particular order, and are entered as individual entries. A book could be written about each one (and may be!), but I have kept them as short as I could. Comments welcome.
They are presented in no particular order, and are entered as individual entries. A book could be written about each one (and may be!), but I have kept them as short as I could. Comments welcome.
#10: Pascal's Wager
Pascal’s Wager is thus: “If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is.”
Many Christians will state an equivalent argument. If you are a Christian and you are wrong, you have lost nothing. If Christians are right, and you choose otherwise, you could be condemned to hell. Therefore, take the path of least risk. Have you ever thought this way or used this as an argument for Christianity? I know I have heard it many times.
I had a strong set of thoughts about this wager the other day. A vision if you will. Suppose, for a moment, that there is indeed a judgmental god that will indeed separate the lambs from the goats, sending people to either Heaven or Hell after they die based not on their deeds, but on their beliefs. An imaginary conversation follows between you and God upon your death, at the Pearly Gates if that’s where you think you’ll be:
You say “Dear God, I accepted Jesus as my savior, saving me from Hell and giving me eternal life with Him. I accepted Jesus as my only path to you. I accepted the Bible as your inerrant holy word, and spread it’s message to others.”
God says, “For God’s sake, how could you possibly believe that I would create such an evil place as Hell? How could you accept that I would send even one of the people I created in love and perfection there? How could you think this for even one second?”.
You respond “But, but it says in the Bible that Jesus is the only path to you! And the Bible is The Truth!”.
“The bible is absurd!” booms God. “It was created by Satan as a test! As we did with Job, Satan wagered that man could actually come to believe that I could actually and physically create a place where humans would suffer! And Satan was so confident that he claimed these people would even believe it was for eternity! To know that you can believe this breaks my heart.” Tears flow down God's face.
“But why then did you send Jesus, if not to save us?” you ask.
“Jesus was my son, just as you are my daughter. Jesus was an example of what man could be. His message was distorted and twisted by those in the church under the influence of evil. The Bible has nothing to do with Who I Am.”
“But my dear Father,” you plead, “just because I believed in Hell, are you going to send me there?”.
At this point, the story could go in any direction you think God is willing to go. If you are a Christian, you believe God is perfectly capable of sending you to Hell. I am not. So, in my version, God continues thus:
“My sweet daughter, I could never do that to any of my creations. I have created every human being with love. You will have eternal life in Heaven, as will all of my beloved. Please enter with my blessing. Your brother Dave is there, eagerly waiting for you with open arms.”
Pascal’s Wager only makes sense if your choices are limited to precisely two. In the case of Christianity, there are far more choices. Pascal's Wager is a case against Christianity, not for it.
Many Christians will state an equivalent argument. If you are a Christian and you are wrong, you have lost nothing. If Christians are right, and you choose otherwise, you could be condemned to hell. Therefore, take the path of least risk. Have you ever thought this way or used this as an argument for Christianity? I know I have heard it many times.
I had a strong set of thoughts about this wager the other day. A vision if you will. Suppose, for a moment, that there is indeed a judgmental god that will indeed separate the lambs from the goats, sending people to either Heaven or Hell after they die based not on their deeds, but on their beliefs. An imaginary conversation follows between you and God upon your death, at the Pearly Gates if that’s where you think you’ll be:
You say “Dear God, I accepted Jesus as my savior, saving me from Hell and giving me eternal life with Him. I accepted Jesus as my only path to you. I accepted the Bible as your inerrant holy word, and spread it’s message to others.”
God says, “For God’s sake, how could you possibly believe that I would create such an evil place as Hell? How could you accept that I would send even one of the people I created in love and perfection there? How could you think this for even one second?”.
You respond “But, but it says in the Bible that Jesus is the only path to you! And the Bible is The Truth!”.
“The bible is absurd!” booms God. “It was created by Satan as a test! As we did with Job, Satan wagered that man could actually come to believe that I could actually and physically create a place where humans would suffer! And Satan was so confident that he claimed these people would even believe it was for eternity! To know that you can believe this breaks my heart.” Tears flow down God's face.
“But why then did you send Jesus, if not to save us?” you ask.
“Jesus was my son, just as you are my daughter. Jesus was an example of what man could be. His message was distorted and twisted by those in the church under the influence of evil. The Bible has nothing to do with Who I Am.”
“But my dear Father,” you plead, “just because I believed in Hell, are you going to send me there?”.
At this point, the story could go in any direction you think God is willing to go. If you are a Christian, you believe God is perfectly capable of sending you to Hell. I am not. So, in my version, God continues thus:
“My sweet daughter, I could never do that to any of my creations. I have created every human being with love. You will have eternal life in Heaven, as will all of my beloved. Please enter with my blessing. Your brother Dave is there, eagerly waiting for you with open arms.”
Pascal’s Wager only makes sense if your choices are limited to precisely two. In the case of Christianity, there are far more choices. Pascal's Wager is a case against Christianity, not for it.
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